Curse

max gladius · Apr 03, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

then, why not just make all gold swords 15^50 cyrstalines?

this system has been around since day 1... color coding and such, it give ppl things to strive for... not all golds r same quality either, and they shouldnt be....

if anet wanted ppl to all have the same stats on weapons u would see no 15%vs hexed as inscriptions... but no, u see them....

look at the fellblades now... 2 weeks before nightfall... a req 9 15^50 was worth 100k 20 ecto... now req 9 inscribables r worth 40k if ur lucky... just imagine if just that 1 weapon that everyone who had gold ones could customize them and then change the dmg bonus.... 40k each now would be like 10k each tops.... not that the inscribables rnt still dropping in value

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 03, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

it's not that this would affect the market to make people "less capable of making money" so much as "poorer" Which I find unacceptable. Nerfing farms pissed a bunch of people off but they still HAD the money they made. Decreasing wealth is just not cool. It'd be like saying "okay Monster AI is made tougher now so its harder to solo farm. Oh and btw we also dumped the storage of anyone who solo farmed" Thats a better anaology than you guys are giving.

MithranArkanere · Apr 04, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by max gladius

then, why not just make all gold swords 15^50 cyrstalines?

[...]
if anet wanted ppl to all have the same stats on weapons u would see no 15%vs hexed as inscriptions... but no, u see them....

look at the fellblades now... 2 weeks before nightfall... a req 9 15^50 was worth 100k 20 ecto... now req 9 inscribables r worth 40k if ur lucky... just imagine if just that 1 weapon that everyone who had gold ones could customize them and then change the dmg bonus.... 40k each now would be like 10k each tops.... not that the inscribables rnt still dropping in value

Why to make all gold swords crystallines? Because different people like different skins.
For me a crystalline skins is worth NOTHING is HORRIBLE, ugliest than kicking my own father in th face.
But the Oni skin... ah... that's other thing, I love that skin.

Ah... but in day 1, there was only Prophecies, you won't get to lvl 20 until MUCH later in the game. You were at level 15..18 for a long time...
In Factions, you can easily get to level 20 in less than 6 hours.
Day 1 is far away in the past, the game has evolved.

Well... the fellblades... they were 100k+2ecto..now 40k... hm... what's the problem with that? Now it is as it should be. Less than 100k. I don't see a problem with that. Not all items are worth the same ammount.
A lot of green weapons are worth 1k, and they were much a lot of time ago.
If you want to keep your gold safe, you should keep it as gold, not as items.

This system is already in Nightfall.
And not all weapons in Nightfall come inscribable.
For some time, like the material storage was Factions exclusive, and for some time, factions had no Festivel Hat Crafter. Is fine to keep some features exclusive for some time. But some features can be like material storage, the feature should be added worldwide, because all the players in GW have the same rights.
If not customized, just add the inscription system to the other two campaings would do, but making this possible only in customized remove the item from the market, so you'll actually lose money by doing that... you won't be able to recover the paid money...oh... look, we found a gold pit.

A newbie player won't go to buy a 80k crystalline to customize it... she will go to get some skills to get the money first. And once she has all the needed skills she may be still a newbie, but not so newbie, so I think we can give her the 'right' to buy a high end item.

Alas, there's something else you can do to keep the 'bang' of the expensive skins:
- Add the text 'Customized' to the ping of the weapon.

The same way you can't use a PreAscalon long sword to fake, you cold not use a customized to fake, since it will say:
"I have a customized 'whatever'"
With that you won't be able to fake a perfect crystalline.

SotiCoto · Apr 04, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

/Signed

All this arguing is ridiculous.
The only way this could influence the economy is for someone to get one of those fancy-pants style uber swords... but with a crap damage bonus.... and sell it on to someone who wanted one with a good bonus because that person would then be able to change the bonus themselves. It isn't anything that can't already be done with Nightfall weapons...

And besides.... the divide between the gold-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs and the poor needs to be closed down a bit more. I'm not exactly claiming we shouldn't be working for our equipment... but why should the entire economy be run by solo-UW-farmers and chest-runners? Neither of the above are playing the game the way it was intended. There is a 100k holding limit because it wasn't expected that people would be needing to hold much more than that.... but the methods of certain people have thrown the entire economy out of whack. Simply because some people seem to own half of GW themselves means that certain weapon-types just cannot be bought by 90% of the population.

It is utterly ridiculous.
And I don't give a toss how "elite" people want to be. If you want to be the only owner of one entirely unique uber sword of dewm then there are plenty of single-player games out there...
Guild Wars does not exist to fuel your superiority complex.

...... *Yawns* ...
I wonder how long it'll take me to get a Celestial Sword, Celestial Axe, Celestial Shield and a few Celestial Longbows anyway? Why can't I make my characters pretty, damnit?!

MithranArkanere · Apr 04, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

One last comparison.

You buy a state of the art laptop for 2000€
Do you really expect it to cost 2000€ forever?
Just after you buy it, it goes down to 1000€.
Well. Why? Because new stuff comes after some time.
New stuff came to the game too: inscriptions.
So it is completely normal that the old stuff become obsolete and lose price.

You can go to Nightfall with your characters and get a lot of almost perfect inscribed gold items from treasure chests, and some gold too.

New skins came with Factions, new features came with Nightfall. Now the rarity of the skin is the only thing that matters. Like with armor. That sounds much more like GW to me.

Wanting to keep the prices over 100k, the game to be like it was two years ago, It's like wanting your old 386 to be 500$ worth forever, to stuck in the past. Why to stay there? There are a lot of more interesting and amusing things in the future.

max gladius · Apr 04, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

You cannot compare a computer and its upgradablity to anything that is of continuing status....

To use your computer comparison.... Lets say P3 / 1 gig memory is the max computers have ever seen. technology stopped right there.... they sell for 100k, and the memory is permanent, and only 2 companies make them, they are all red or black..... well some ppl spend less and buy the P3 with 1/2 gig (50k) memory, others get with 1/2 (25k), others get with 1 full gig (from either company) Well a third company opens a year or so later. They sell P3 / 1 gig memory (max), or this new way to upgrade their computers to 1g for just 5k if u happen to get one with less memory at the start, their systems are all orange.

Now, Prices and value of the older systems only went down over time due to more ppl having them... The older companies still make their systems, and they are still not upgradable. The new companies systems have the same top end but their lower end models are upgradeable.....

Alot of the owners of the computers from all 3 companies buy this special keyboard that lets them type faster.... Just because you own the keyboard, should your system from one of the first 2 companies automatically be upgradeable to 1 gig of memory for just an extra 5k?

No, that is the way the companies with the black and the red systems keep ppl buying them, because they are black and red, you cant get those colors anywhere else..... all the ppl can type at higher speed with the new keyboard. But alot of ppl want the black ones more, so they pay more based on the memory in the system and the fact that its black, no matter what.
Now, some of the orange ones are almost a red color... but not very many...

Do you think a person with alot of black computers should sell all of their for orange ones, sure, if they want to, same with the red ones... But... why should all the ppl with the black 1/4 gig memory be able to jump right to the 1 gig for just 5k?

red = items from tyria
black = items from cantha
orange = items from elona

You can get some Tyria items in Elona, but not many, and you will almost never find a Cantha drop there.

** And a side note... what about upgrading shields and focus items?!?!? ohhh, noone thought of that one yet

SotiCoto · Apr 04, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Meh.... you have a point with the shields and focus items.... but then they don't tend to have quite the same impact as the weapons themselves. When I want a decent focus item, I typically just get a collector one, and it doesn't need upgrading or anything. Same goes for shields. I might get an Exalted Aegis for the look some day.... but until then I generally just stick with what I know works.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 04, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Allow all weapons, shields, and offhands to be inscribable.

It's way past due for the market to crash.

The Herbalizer · Apr 04, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Meh.... you have a point with the shields and focus items.... but then they don't tend to have quite the same impact as the weapons themselves. When I want a decent focus item, I typically just get a collector one, and it doesn't need upgrading or anything. Same goes for shields. I might get an Exalted Aegis for the look some day.... but until then I generally just stick with what I know works.

Wait, im totally confused by your stance on high end items now. You have a beef with high end melee weapons yet dont have a beef with high end caster items and shields.

Caster items and shields were what most people argued should be why inscriptions should be added as there were huge problems with PVE chars in PVP having an advantage over PVP only chars i.e. +10Al shields (which sold for alot of gold) and caster items with stats not available to PVP chars.

There is no reason why melee weapons should be further reduced in value. 15>50 / 15-10Al / 15 -5Energy / +5 Energy / 20% Hexed / 15% Vs Hexed etc were all available on melee weapons for next to nothing.

14>50 high req Crystalline swords are usable to any warrior. The difference between 14>50 and 15>50 is basically nothing and any decent warrior would use high swordmanship. So usable Crystalline swords are available cheapish. With Kilroy farming purple Dwarven axe, Crystalline swords and Serpent Axes have lost alot of value. Thus making 14>50 purple versions even more accessible to the poorer population of Guild Wars.

O no there are expensive items which many people cant afford.... Basically the only items with a wow factor now are unconditional weapons thanks to Anet increasing the drop rate on everything and adding inscriptions. Compare that to 2005 when basically anything with a perfect inherent mod would sell for crazy amounts. Now the economy is incredibly good for the poorer gamer. Yet people still want more high end item nerfs.

There are tens of thousands of people who play to obtain nice items and driving the price of items down or cheapening their image will only make them leave GW. To potential purchasers of GW seeing how there is barely anything rare left sure does look appealing....

All it comes down to in most cases is jealousy. People see others with stuff they wont ever obtain and are jealous. Because they cannot obtain it they would like to see them lose those items. Those rich people sure are evil having all those nice items which dont actually give them an advantage over anyone.... And because the wealthier player base in GW is in the minority clearly their items, time put in, opinion etc does not matter....

HawkofStorms · Apr 05, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Well said Herbalizer.

MithranArkanere · Apr 05, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by max gladius

You cannot compare a computer and its upgradablity to anything that is of continuing status....

** And a side note... what about upgrading shields and focus items?!?!? ohhh, noone thought of that one yet

I was not talking about the item iteself, but about the system. Now weapons with insciption slot can drop and be crafted in Elona and PvP. That's the new system. Why to stick with the older one?
Prices? That's not a reason. Prices vary with time and flux. They do not stay the same forever and item
Market? Well... GW market was never meant to have prices over 100k, farmers and such make them rise. When FoW was nerfed, our guild leader left the game, he was a hardcore farmer, he did nothing but that. Now we have much more guild members, and he was the only one complaining about that nerf. Who cares anyway? I like to play, not to farm, that why I play GW.
Rarity? Nor a reason again, there are quite rare inscribed items.
Effort and energy spent to get them bu players? Heh... The fissure armor are not upgraded to the new system, and I think that you have to spend much more time to get a full set of Obsidian armor than getting a 100k+ecto weapon, so...
Currently the only reason is the time and effort to make old areas drop items with the new system and already existing items change to the new system.
This idea is a way to do so, and that's why this is a good idea, a quick fix that would do until they make something bigger.
They can already change items by NPC action (customize and infusion) so this is possible.

Instead of applying the inscription system to all the stuff, you want all items to go back to the old system. And there is no point to do that. Neither to 'leave the things as they are'. Is simply not right to make things that drop in some places have a chance to be inscribable and other not. That's what I meant.
Instead of being able to add inscription slots to already customized items I'd like all items to allow inscriptions, but hey... not all things you wish happen. So this idea would do for me.

Now about offhand items I think I can remember... let me make a search...
Hm... I had some thoughts about offhand items.
"The easy solution is to make them customizable too, by, for example, adding +2 armor to shields and +2 energy to focuses."
I can't recall nor find where, but it was a thread started by other user.

But... I found another ideas of mine that I think you'll absolutely 'love', max gladius, since you like so much the old school GW.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?p=2604073
Specially the part of the chances to destroy items in the process, I love when crating system have item destruction. Risks make things more interesting.

max gladius · Apr 05, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Well... GW market was never meant to have prices over 100k, farmers and such make them rise. interesting.

You couldnt be more wrong, and im tired of you saying that....

Sup Absorb was 100k for first yr of game...
FOW armor almost 1 mil investment...

if GW wanted to control the market, as you say, they wouldnt cut back on farmers, they would make the farming easier so prices went down....

I recommend u go out, start a new character, turn on the hints, and learn how to play the game.... then come back and try to carry on an intelligent conversation.....

/willdeletegameifimplimented

MithranArkanere · Apr 05, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

There is were your mistake is.
You think everyone farms.
But the truth is far from it.
They cut farming because not everyone farms, if the removed the limit for farming, those who farm would keep the market, making things completely unavailable for those who not, vecause for those that farm, getting 100k would be awesomely easy, but getting that ammount just by questing and making missions is way slower.

The game was never made just for farming, it's true that there are areas that look completely meant for farming, like the verming zone.
A bunch of creatures of the same type, far from others, with level lower than 20 and a build with few skills easy to counter.
Yep, there are zones ment to farm, but with wise limits, so people can afford some skills quickly and easily, not to gather 1000k per day.

GW already control the market.
That control is called TRADERS.
Traders control the prices of ectos.
And ectos have max and min price limits.

Without traders, people that do not track prices woul have no reference, and they would be easily scammed, making prices raise much higher over time.
I think I can remember that there was some stirring when traders where first added... and when material storage... and anytime an event item can be dyed dye prices go crazy... and there was some commotion when inscriptions where too...
And since you can show minipets in outpost many of them had their prices rised.

But... the market is still there, and people still buy things... and new changes will come with GW:EN.

Don't worry about the market, he'll be fine.

Just try to enjoy the game, and let other do the same.
You enjoy by farming and hoarding stuff...? Hm...
Maybe you chosed the wong game... it's not that I blame you... but there is no point in doing that in GW. GW is so different to other games in both concept and evolution that trying to amking it more like other games is simply... nonsense.

max gladius · Apr 05, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Right off the GURU AUCTION...

Higher bids

3,500,000 GLD sundering crystalline sword of fortitude [perfect]
2,000,000 GLD Mini Ghostly Hero
1,850,000 GLD Req 9 Colossal Scimitar
1,800,000 GLD >WTS = RARE= RUNIC SWORD REQ 9 INSCRIPTABLE
1,510,001 GLD rare req9 Colassal Scimitare perfect
960,000 GLD Minipet Longhair Yeti ^^
900,000 GLD Sundering Elemental Sword Of Fortitude req 9 15^50, 20^20 hp30
810,000 GLD Perfect req9 Elemental Sword 15^50/+30hp/ 20/20

WOW, WHAT TRADER PRICED THESE ITEMS?!?
Glad to see GW isnt intending on things costing over 100k... how bout u??

Noone said it was "made for farming" but they cannot go and "make it worthless" either... what i was saying was if ecto was dropping like whites, then the market for them would be lower.. not higher as u said....

supply and demand...
supply is down demand is up, ecto is 15k each
supply is up demand is down, ecto is 5k each

who would farm something that drops all the time and everyone is selling...

What has happened, is Anet has an economy in the game... and if they "made everything inscribable" the economy would go flat, and alot of the players would have nothing to achieve and there for no one would play the game and anet would loose money....

Material trader, merchant, armor crafters have been around from day 1 if i recall...

And noone said the game is designed to just be farmed...

And ur comments on farming are pretty absurd... they make things harder to farm because they want ppl to have to earn it more, as in you need a party to get things, not just 1 guy ... look at dead swords, prices went through the floor because lots of ppl were farming them easily... no such thing as 1 guy farming EVERYTHING...

Now, back on track from you pulling me into ur rant...

Making all weapons inscribable would without a doubt make alot of ppl stop playing the game because there wouldnt be as many things to achieve in the game... not all of us pvp, nor farm, or such, but...

we all have a goal, for some ppl that goal is 1 max dmg req 5, whatever. and if suddenly the rareity of that whatever went way down, then that person would loose interest in the game as many others would...

HawkofStorms · Apr 05, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

That's the thing. Nobody NEEDS to farm. You don't NEED to have that uber rare weapon. Your assumption is that not everybody farms. Well, if somebody wants to get something rare, then they are going to farm (or power trade, which actually gets you more money).

Even if you somehow gave people a ton of free money, those items that drop less would still cost more because they are rare and thus have a low supply. Low supply + high demand = sellers market where they can set the prices.

TheLichMonky · Apr 05, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

That's the thing. Nobody NEEDS to farm. You don't NEED to have that uber rare weapon. Your assumption is that not everybody farms. Well, if somebody wants to get something rare, then they are going to farm (or power trade, which actually gets you more money).

Even if you somehow gave people a ton of free money, those items that drop less would still cost more because they are rare and thus have a low supply. Low supply + high demand = sellers market where they can set the prices.

Well said, if you want a max weapon set, there are a lot of green weapons from tyria that are worth nothing, and you can get the gold from selling the drops you get from missions. And there would be a question of what about pvp weapons.. there customized.. see a problem or bug? Oo

lyra_song · Apr 05, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

How about this:

Gold weapons thats customized becomes inscribable and can be inscribed with maximum level inscriptions

Purple weapons thats customized becomes inscribable and can be inscribed with non-max level inscriptions.